Selig Sacks, New York - MEET THE COLLECTOR Series Part Forty-Two
I met this week’s collector a few years ago at the Outsider Art Fair in New York and we have stayed in touch since. This year I had the real pleasure of visiting his place in New York and seeing his collection first hand - and wow! Selig Sacks therefore makes up part forty-two of my ‘Meet the Collector’ series. Enjoy reading …
Selig Sacks in his house in New York
1. When did your interest in the field of outsider/folk art begin? And when did you become a collector of this art?
It began in the early ‘80s, when a good friend, Joseph Jacobs, became Curator of Modern Art at the Ringling Museum of Art in Saratoga FL. In a ‘Made in Florida’ exhibition, Joe featured a large painting on wood by Purvis Young alongside two other Miami artists. I contacted the Miami gallery - by snail mail back then - and they sent me a slide. I was captivated by the image of the singular 8 foot majestic pregnant woman. It became the first work of Self-taught art that I purchased. My parents were then living in South Florida, so when I would visit, I would go and spend time with Purvis. The Miami gallerist, Barbara Gillman (who also showed Andy Warhol and Andres Serrano), and I helped to arrange Roger Ricco and Frank Maresca’s first Purvis Young show in 1988. Two years before his death, in 2008 Purvis came to New York and stayed with me and my family for a week. My kids had a chance to get to get to know him and observe as he would constantly draw in the backyard of our brownstone in Manhattan.
Meeting Purvis became the catalyst for my journey into Self-taught Art. I became involved with the American Folk Art Museum, first chairing their benefit at The Outsider Art Fair and then as a board and executive committee member. Also two memorable trips to Birmingham with Bill Arnett and Robert Hobbs spending time with Thornton Dial, Lonnie Holley, Ronald Lockett and traveling throughout Alabama to see and document the incredible Yard Shows of Joe Minter and others.
2. Can you tell us a bit about your own background?
I grew up in Western Canada. My father was a rabbi and his first pulpit was in Edmonton. So I guess I was always attracted to the symbolism and power of objects used in a religious context. As a family, we would spend summers in Chicago with both sets of grandparents and returned to live there when I entered high school. I went to Northwestern for college then to law school on the West Coast at Stanford. I came to New York to practice law and have lived in NY ever since. My specialty is M&A with an emphasis on international transactions. Three and a half years ago I left a large law firm practice and joined a privately held asset management company headquartered in Beijing as their managing director for the US and Europe. One of the side benefits had been to experience Self-taught art in different environments and cultures. For example, to first see and acquire work by Guo Fengyi in Long March Space in Beijing’s 798 Art District.
Selig in another room surrounded by art
3. What is it that draws your eye away from contemporary art to outsider/folk art? Or do you collect both? And how many pieces do you think you have in your collection?
I came to Self-taught Art from collecting contemporary art. What really riveted me was the immediacy of the work and the fact that it is unmediated and unfiltered. And that many of the artists saw their artistic expression as furthering a voice from within - a spiritual calling (such as Sister Gertrude Morgan, Howard Finster, J.B. Murray or Rev. Wm. Blayney). The life stories of the Self-taught artists and how oftentimes they had to use the most humble of materials (such as Martin Ramirez and James Castle) resonated with me as well. In short, the authenticity of the work and I guess to use the term “Art Brut,” the ‘rawness’ and directness of the work.
There are about 70 Self- taught artists in the collection. And I have collected some artists quite deeply such as James Castle, Eugene Von Bruenchenhein, Roy Ferdinand and Purvis Young. At our brownstone probably around 300 works are hung at any one time - salon style, literally floor (and on the floor) to ceiling. I particularly enjoy contemporary art groups, such as the VIP Tours of The Armory Show, seeing the collection in dialogue with contemporary, academically trained, artists, and hearing their observations and comparisons. I lend frequently to exhibitions such as the ‘25th Anniversary of Raw Vision’ at Halle St. Pierre in Paris in 2013, the James Castle show in 2011 and the 2010 Martin Ramirez show which Lynne Cooke curated at Reina Sofia. Each year I donate from the collection to various art museums and institutions. I have seeded the Self-taught collection of The Block Museum of Northwestern University (where I am on the Board) – one of the great teaching museums, and have contributed a significant amount of Purvis Young‘s work to AVAM, the Kohler, Newark Museum and New Orleans Museum, among others. As collectors we are temporary custodians of this work. I really think it is important that it be seen and studied as broadly as possible.
4. Are these pieces that you’ve had for a while around your house and so you’re happy for them to go on to somewhere else?
Well I do miss them as I think all collectors do. Sometimes I wake up in a panic and don’t remember where a particular work is. There is a beauty of being able to live with the work on an on-going basis, and see the work in dialogue with the contemporary pieces. So whether with works by Martin Wong, William Kentridge, William Pope or Louise Bourgeois. Or to see Bessie Harvey’s ‘Red Horse of Revelations’ in dialogue with a Han Dynasty clay horse or a Songye power figure.
Installation photography from inside Selig’s house
5. What style of work, if any, is of particular interest to you within this field? (for example is it embroidery, drawing, sculpture, and so on).
It is pretty broad across all media, including video work by Brent Green. I’m the type of collector that if I see a piece that really interests me I will pursue it regardless of scale. Practicality has never entered into the equation. And more than once I have been unable to get a piece through the door. That presents its own set of challenges!
Drawing as a medium has always interested me with the intimacy of graphite on paper and how clearly you can see the artist’s hand. I also have a special interest in works by artists with disabilities. I always find myself at Creative Growth or NIAD or Creativity Explored when I am in the Bay Area for Board meetings at Stanford. Dan Miller and William Scott from Creative Growth, Marlon Mullen of NIAD and Evelyn Reyes and Daniel Green of Creativity Explored are among my favorite artists. It was thrilling seeing Marlon’s work in the recent Whitney Biennial as well as the monumental sculpture of Joe Minter.
6. Would you say you had a favourite artist or piece of work within your collection? And why?
I think the very first piece of Self-taught art that I acquired, the Purvis Young, is a piece that I continue to go back to. The large seminal pregnant woman on wood board. A wheelbarrow construction by James Castle. I am continually awed by his use of materials. And a Martin Ramirez stag with dogs nipping at its feet drawn on sheets of hospital paper glued together with potato paste. I am finding myself drawn to certain artists such as Clementine Hunter and Minnie Evans whom I hadn’t collected initially. Or James “Son Ford“ Thomas sculptures of heads. I am looking now at a beautiful bust of a woman with beads and prominent earrings – she exudes such confidence and pride.
Installation photography from inside Selig’s house
7. Is there an exhibition in this field of art that you have felt has been particularly important? And why?
Three immediately come to mind, which I personally experienced. Each expanded the audience and the reach of Self-taught art into a larger context. The first was in 1998 - The American Folk Art Museum Show “Self-Taught Artists of the 20th Century – An American Anthology.” It was curated by Harold Szeemann and Elsa Longhauser and opened in the Philadelphia Museum of Art‘s main exhibition space previously occupied by the Cezanne show. To see that brilliant show in that museum, in that space, was extraordinary. The second was in 2003, the traveling show of Gee’s Bend Quilts. To see the quilts occupy the entire third floor of The Whitney with many of the quilters present was magical. I remember Roberta Smith’s review that the canon of contemporary art needing to be reshuffled in light of this work. And at The American Folk Art Museum, the 2008 show that Brooke Anderson curated “Dargerism - Contemporary artists and Henry Darger” –Works by artists such as Trenton Doyle Hancock, Grayson Perry and Robyn O’Neil in dialogue with the works of Henry Darger. These are three shows that in my mind were remarkable in expanding the dialogue and seeing the work by Self-taught artists in a much broader context.
8. Are there any people working in this field that you think have helped to pave the way for where it is at today?
Lee Kogan, Brooke Anderson and Valerie Rousseau’s contributions have been extraordinary in the U.S. And the prodigious writings of Edward Gomez and intricately crafted essays by Jane Kallir. In terms of gallerists, what you and Henry Boxer are doing in the UK is magnificent. I think of what Randall Morris and Shari Cavin have consistently been doing in terms of their global reach. And Frank Maresca, John Ollman and Carl Hammer as gallerists with impeccable eyes who mount elegant shows. Phyllis Kind was a considerable influence and we spent many an evening discussing the field and particular artists. She introduced me to the works of Martin Ramirez, Adolf Wolfli and Madge Gill. When works were outside my reach financially she and I would concoct elaborate payment plans. As to collectors, Bob Roth and Monty Blanchard are two people I have always admired for their keen eye, knowledge, and leadership of Intuit and AFAM, respectively. There are so many people. And how Bill Arnett made it his life’s mission to champion the work of Self- taught artists of the South. James Brett has expanded the envelope with his global vision as he has merged the roles as collector, gallerist and impresario. Steve and Amy Slotin whose catalogs 2-3 times a year I eagerly await and pour over. And how Cara Zimmerman has made Self-taught art a permanent fixture at Christie’s. My hope is that more and more young collectors will continue to be drawn to the field and that they will experience the joy and the relevance of this material to their lives.
Installation photography from inside Selig’s house
9. Where would you say you buy most of your work from: a studio, art fairs, exhibitions, auctions or direct from artists?
It really is a mix where I buy from and where the next discovery will come from. Andrew Edlin has contributed so handsomely with his stewardship and expansion of The Outsider Art Fair with the Paris edition and the online presence. Both Andrew and Scott Ogden with Shrine and you, with your gallery, have been carrying on in the tradition of some of the great gallerists who established themselves in the 70’s when recognition of the field was first developing.
10. What sort of pieces are you looking to continue to add to your collection?
It is pretty broad based. I recently acquired a wonderful Georges Liataud sculpture from Cavin Morris Gallery. And I recently added drawings by Minnie Evans, two which were probably completed within days of each other based on the similarity of composition and motifs. And paintings by William Scott, whom I have admired and purchased my first painting by him last February at Frieze Los Angeles.
11. Have you ever exhibited your collection outside of your home, or do you any plans to?
I’ve been encouraged by curators and other collectors to show the collection as an entire body and do a book. So, the answer is “maybe,” time permitting. Up until now, various parts have been shown. So, for example, the last show at the American Folk Art Museum’s 53rd Street location in 2011 curated by Brett Littman on Eugene Von Bruenchenhein was built around the drawings by EVB that I had sourced years’ before with Aron Packer. And the Block Museum in 2017 did a show of some 30 works of Purvis Young, predominantly drawn from the collection.
Installation photography from inside Selig’s house
12. A conflicted term at present, but can you tell us about your opinion of the term outsider art, how you feel about it and if there are any other words that you think we should be using instead?
The term Outsider Art doesn’t bother me. I know that all the various terms are problematic for one reason or another. Whether it is “outsider,“ “vernacular,” “self taught”… It was interesting to see in 2018 when Lynne Cooke coined the term “Outliers.” There is a human tendency to want to encapsulate or label movements or events with a word or phrase. What I find extraordinary about the use of the terms “self-taught“ or “outsider“ or “Art Brut“ is that they means so many different things to different people. It hopefully becomes a starting point, allowing for a broader discussion about art and the creative process. And to do so in a way that tears down boundaries.
13. How would you describe your collection – would you say it is an outsider art collection?
As we talked about earlier it ranges across subject matter and medium. So for example it is not the classic Dubuffet definition of art brut. It really is focused on the creative genius of those individuals who have not been academically trained, but have come to realize their self-expression through alternative channels of inspiration and discipline and oral as well as physically manifested traditions. When I first became involved in this field, it seemed to me so disingenuous for people to create a boundary between academically trained and non-academically trained. Nobody asks if Miles Davis graduated from high school or college. Genius is genius, whatever the wellspring it comes from. When I first moved to New York and I was collecting contemporary art, many of the artists whom I got to know personally would sit on pins and needles in the hope Clem Greenberg would make a studio visit. And if he would, they would hang on every word as to direction he believed they should take their art. I find it quite refreshing and extraordinary that the artists we collect are guided by their own internal voices and what they want or feel compelled to express. Each has his or her unique story and pathway. With a need and obsessiveness to express which defies boundaries or individual circumstance. And that to me is extraordinary.