PAUL YANDURA, WEST VIRGINIA – MEET THE COLLECTOR PART SEVENTY ONE

Meet the Collector

28 Jan

Part seventy one of my Meet the Collector series came about through conversations with my good friend Matthew Bede Murphy following me seeing an incredible Judith Scott artwork (pictured below) at the American Visionary Art Museum in early 2024. Matthew told me the work was in his friends collection, and hooked me up, where I got to learn more about this fascinating collector and his equally fascinating life. Read on for my interview with Paul Yandura, who lives between West Virginia and Florida.

Paul Yandura at Halle Saint Pierre, Paris

Jennifer: What is a general overview of your background?

Paul: I’m a recovering political junkie and have had many different jobs in Washington, including working at the Clinton White House and running my own political consulting firm for many years. Around 2014 I was getting fed up with politics and politicians so, I left Washington to get away from it all. My partner, Donald and I moved to a tiny town in WV in the Appalachina Mountains and thought of retiring early or doing something else with our lives. It’s interesting because I always thought that the ideal dream job for me would be having my own gallery. I have collected outsider art, or more specifically untrained American artists for over 30 years now, on the side as an escape from reality. I was actually drawn to outsider artists many years ago because they were truly outside of the establishment. I remember living in New York when I was in my 20’s and visiting modern art galleries and just being treated like shit, literally ignored by gallery salespeople and owners. The whole scene was so uptight and intimidating. Then I found outsider artists that had no fancy gallery representation, and I could meet with them and get to know them. Many times I would even pay them more for their work then what they were asking because their prices were too low! I became what I call an obsessive collector and would buy multiple pieces from artists I liked. What happened was, in the 90’s the first outsider art fair happened and the first one was nuts because it was all over the street outside, as well as the art inside. I can’t even remember where it was, but it was nutty, and I loved it! It was accessible, it was affordable and lots of times, if I liked an artist back then, I would go meet them wherever they were. Some of them were still alive, some weren’t. I really tried to search them out, meet them and I had this weird thing – my own obsessiveness. When I meet someone, and I like their art I never buy one piece. I’m always like, I want the whole show, or I want the all the art. I wasn’t buying it with the intention to sell it. That has been one of the smartest and craziest things I did, because now I see some of these folks and some of them need shows, whether its Smithsonian or wherever and I’m like, if you want to do a show, I could literally give you the ten/fifteen/twenty pieces to start! I get asked all the time to come talk to people who want to buy art and tell them how to do it… I’m like, no. Anyone can be a collector, and if you are buying what you love you don’t need to follow anyone else’s rules. If you are collecting art as an investment, that is a different question and one I am not qualified to answer! Honestly, I have two questions, ‘do I like it’? That’s the first one, and second ‘can I afford it’? And that, ‘can I afford it?’, has changed over time. I used to follow this homeless guy around and he would put his art up in the metro (subway) in DC. I have no idea what his name is, I have two drawings by him. They were signs that he created with discarded markers and pens usually on old cardboard boxes, like FedEx envelopes or even pizza boxes. He would make and put them up all over DC. I would go up to him and say I’ll give you a hundred dollars for that right now, and he kept telling me that he does not take money, that ‘money is evil,’ and they were not for sale. He would never sell them to me. So, I would literally sit in my car and watch him when I thought he was finishing one. Every time he’d finish it, he’d go over to the stairwell in the metro system and just hang it up and I would park my car in the middle of the street and run and grab it (laughter). I only got two but they’re so cool, they’re like some of my favourites. Are they worth anything, I don’t really know, nor do I care? Would someone else buy them without the story? Probably not. Could I afford them, and do I love them? Definitely.

Jennifer: Was he old at the time?

Paul: Oh yes, he was old. I doubt he is with us any longer. Someone similar, who made amazing signs out of trash and old boards and hung them around Baltimore was Paul Darmafall. He was called the Baltimore Glass Man. They have a lot of his pieces at the American Visionary Art Museum (AVAM), one of my favorite museums in the world. I really liked his stuff. He was kind of prolific. He did the same thing, he put signs up, but they were broken glass, glitter and all these weird sayings. When you see one, you’ll know it’s his. Over 20 years ago his family was putting up all these pieces at auction and no one knew who it was, and I had heard of him because of AVAM, so I was just there buying every single piece. I own around thirty big pieces. I’ve been trying to figure out how to get him into the Smithsonian… they should have them really! He was so quintessential American, schizophrenic, would go hide in the woods and make these signs that were warning people about the dangers of electric and the Government, and they are also very patriotic, so when you see them, you can’t miss them. And now I’m seeing more and more, but people are saying they can’t do a show because there’s not enough pieces out there. So, the last show AVAM did, they borrowed twelve of my bigger pieces. Not even my biggest piece – I have one of Jesus on the cross which is like four feet by four at least.

Jennifer: Oh, my goodness

Paul: And it’s so crazy because he used to take cutouts of people from the newspaper because he couldn’t draw, and he would take from ads of people doing things and he’d put glitter all over them.

Jennifer: If you’ve got so many of them, are they just in storage?

Paul: Yes, now they are. I just sold my place in DC. I had a ton of stuff just jammed up in the attic. I moved everything to my place in West Virginia. I also have lots of art in my place in Celebration, Florida. I really need to hire some person to come and catalogue it all. That way, at least I could start showing people what I have. Because once they see it, like AVAM, they will call me and say, ‘we’re doing a show focused on water and we know you have the craziest stuff’. And I’m like, ‘oh I do have these’… and they usually just take it all! Last year they borrowed a lot of my pieces including Monica Valentine beaded sculptures, Paul Darmfall pieces and Judith Scott cocoon sculptures. They still have my Judith Scott pieces in the museum currently.

Jennifer: Once you’ve got the catalogue, then you can loan it out more, right?

Paul: Yeah, I would like to, and I want people to go up and get close and even touch them if they want to. And I know that’s hard if it’s like my tin foil gorilla by Dean Million, which AVAM has borrowed twice. But in museums you are not allowed to touch anything, so when I go to a museum and see one of my pieces on loan and folks not being able to touch it I feel sad. But I also understand that if hundreds of people manhandled the tin foil gorilla it would be no more!

Jennifer: Yes, I know him, he used to go to LAND Gallery in New York, right?

Paul: Yes. So, I bought that probably twenty years ago and I was like, I’m happy for people to touch it. It’s lost a bit of tin foil here and there, but it still looks amazing.

Dean Million, gorilla made from tin foil

Paul with Dean Million and his tin foil elephant head

Jennifer: Would you ever build a museum? There are some collectors I speak to that have taken over buildings just to house their collection, so might that be of interest?

Paul: Yes. I have been thinking about it and, you know, you can see I love the collecting side, but I also run a foundation as my real job, and then I have five other businesses which I love too. I always say that if there was a building where I am in West Virginia, I would buy it in a minute, and house my art in it. It would be a draw to bring people. I love collecting obsessively but I also love to expose new people to great art and artists. I have always focused on American untrained artists and one of your questions was – ‘what are you most into?’ – what I’m most attracted to is obsessive art that is crazy, repetitive, people working out something. And if you put glitter or broken glass or anything shiny in it, I’m in! 100%

Jennifer: You mentioned Monica Valentine, whom I also love and who works out of Creative Growth and who I’ve seen in your home.

Paul: Yes. She is amazing, and so crazy good! Me and my late business partner Jonathan Lewis and his husband Mark are crazy into Monica’s work. We’ve probably got ten pieces between us. I got him into this kind of art, as normally he bought lots of high-brow modern art, but then it started with Judith Scott’s work and grew from there! When I loan work to museums, I always try to suggest other artists that I have come across too, hence Monica’s work appeared in AVAM after I recommended it. I’m always pushing galleries and museums to show this art.

Jennifer: Wonderful! So, your name came onto my radar when I saw your incredible Judith Scott at AVAM, so how many Judith’s do you own?

Paul: I only have two, which are great pieces and because they’re expensive, and now selling at Christies auctions for $20-50K!! The first one I got I had to get Tom from Creative Growth to put to one side, until I could afford it. My business partner had found out about this and bought it me for my birthday! What was really sad is, I travelled to go meet her from DC, she was ill on the Friday, so we changed it to meet on the Monday, but she passed away that weekend, so I never got to meet her.

Jennifer: Oh no, how sad. So, you first came across this art when you went to the first outsider art fair?

Paul: Yeah. My great friend and the smartest art aficionado I know, Matthew Bede Murphy from LAND Gallery was a part of me seeing and buying this art, but most of it was from going to the fair and seeing how accessible it was – not just price wise, but the fact you could meet the artists. I still very much went off the ‘do I like it?’ and ‘can I afford it?’ attitude. I got a call once in DC and they were cleaning out a house of a family that were moving and they had all these foster kids. And upstairs in the attic and they had found out that one of the kids who couldn’t speak, had Downs Syndrome, created this whole series of space shuttles and whatever out of milk cartons, and their mother’s hypodermic needles. But I got there too late as I was in New York and it was gone when I got back. I would get these calls quite often over the years, with people calling and saying – ‘you’re the only person that we even know, that would even care whatever the hell this is, do you want to see it?’ I’m like, oh my God, whatever, just hold on to it.’

Jennifer: Yeah, I like that ethos. So, you’ve said you’ve probably got hundreds of works in your house, any idea of how many?

Paul: I’d say easily over 1,500 pieces, but lots are currently in storage.

Mary T. Smith works, and Sereno Wilson glitter work from Project Onward

Jennifer: So, if they make it into your house, then that means they’re quite special?

Paul: Yes, if they make it on display or on a wall and that’s the thing, like, my husband Donald, well actually we haven’t officially got married but we’ve been together for twenty-seven years – he always demands – one in and one out and that’s it! He has put up with some crazy art extractions and outings, and puts up with beads, glitter, feather, trash flying all over our houses from some of the pieces!

Jennifer: And you’re not a floor to ceiling hanging person?

Paul: No. Like I said a lot of them leave trails – broken glass, glitter, dust! My cleaning folks may be more freaked out than Donald worrying that a piece fell off and I’m like, don’t worry, it’s okay, it’s going to fall off, it’s literally like household glue that was used in the 60’s!

Jennifer: Exactly. You said that you only ever buy self-taught untrained artists work, so you don’t buy work by contemporary trained artists, right?

Paul: No. I love their art though and would encourage them to create art and would double encourage folks to buy real art. Early on, Donald, my partner, said, you’re so naturally obsessive that if you’re buying so much you need to give yourself some boundaries so, I chose American untrained. At first it was like disability specific, but it’s more like American untrained more broadly now.

Jennifer: I see you’ve got some King Nobuyoshi Godwin work in your collection. I love his work! Have you ever met him, as he and his family are so sweet?

Paul: Yes, he is amazing, but no I have not gotten the chance to meet him yet. But I would really like to someday. I have several pieces at my place in West Virginia, and when everyone comes in, they’re like – wow! Some people say, okay so you like kid’s art – but I always say – why is that kids art? I say to them, okay I’ll give you those same art materials they used, and you do the same thing, if you think it’s so easy to do!

Jennifer: Yeah, I get that all the time. And comments like that in shows I curate – becomes quite annoying! I see some Mary T. smith’s works too. She’s one of my favourites.

Paul: Yes. There are some old ones, and they are also in our place in West Virginia. I probably have six or seven, I really like her stuff. Again, people say to me it’s like kids art. I’m like, okay, I’m not even going to argue with you. If you think that’s not art, I’m fine, I’m good, but this is a woman that is using them to attract people to sell them, so they’re brilliant because she uses these contrasting colours in a way that you wouldn’t normally think about. And I would put money on it, that if I gave folks that say that the simple paint brush and house paint that Mary T used, they would have a hard time recreating her amazing art.

I’m always talking to museums to expand the showing of this type of art and saying just give me a room (Ideally, I would love a room at the Smithsonian or the Brooklyn Museum) and I’ll bring some cool shit, and you guys can pick what you want! There are some many amazing artists in this genre. Do you know Nancy Josephson?

Jennifer: Yes, I love Nancy Josephson, and have a fabulous brooch from her relating to the word ‘fuck’!

Paul: Yes, so I have a bedspread in my house that I bought a long time ago. She called me telling me there was a beaded bed that had been shown at AVAM and was now coming back from a show in Paris, that needed a new permanent home, not knowing who else might like it, and it’s now in my guestroom. The bedspread hangs as art on the wall too.

Jennifer: Beautiful. So, would you say that you have a favorite artist in your collection?

Paul: I think it moves. I would say I have an obsession with an artist at different times. So now, Sereno Wilson who works out of Project Onward in Chicago, who uses glitter in his art is one.

Jennifer: Yes, I’ve met him and know of his art.

Nancy Josephson beaded bed and bedspread on top

Nancy Josephson bedspread on the wall as art

Paul: I get obsessed, King Nobuyoshi Godwin being another obsession. More recently, Monica Valentine has become one of my favourites… Judith Scott, Mary T. Smith! It’s like they’re all my babies, I don’t want them to hear me talking bad about them or favoring one over another! I mean, Dean’ Millien’s going to call me and yell at me for not picking him, you know. I do know that there’s a couple that I still lust after – Clarence and Grace Woolsey being one.

Jennifer: The bunny bottle caps?

Paul: Yes. I have a birdhouse, which I got in an auction because I think people thought, that’s not representative of their known style of the bunnys, but I loved it I think the other one is Simon Sparrow who is the glitter and old jewellery guy.

Jennifer: You can still get those though, I’ll put you in touch with someone! Oh, one of my questions was that Matthew Bede Murphy says that you like memory jugs, why do you love them so much?

Paul: It’s the obsessiveness of them again, and that people are working things out with them. You used to be able to find them at garage sales, and they’d be dirty, yet told a secret story and I liked that! It was like they called to me... the dirtier and older, the better! Friends bought me them when they saw since they knew that I would love it! I have no idea how old some of mine are, but I’ve seen some in AVAM that mine could be compared to, so I guess that helps.

Jennifer: Of course, but I guess the age thing matters less to you if you just love the art. Is there any exhibition that you’ve been to that you’ve loved, that showcased this work?

Paul: I think that the ‘We are Made of Stories’ at the Smithsonian from the Robson family collection, I think that. To me, it just brings it to another level – it’s serious, you know. I also think – I was blown away with the Brooklyn Museum and New Museum when they did the Judith Scott shows. To see them in a room treated in a special way, especially because mine was always sitting on my desk in my house, felt special. And I didn’t get to the exhibit, but I think ‘souls grown deep’ I think it was called, that had Mary T. Smith and stuff like that in it many years ago in the South. But I remember the book and I remember going online to view it, showcasing it as real art that you should look at.

One of the memory jugs Paul has collected over the years… this one being a rabbit.

Jennifer: And are there any people in this field that you think are doing important things?

Paul: Yes. Probably the biggest influencer for me has been Matthew at LAND and watching him. We were friends first, but he has really helped me see this art and understand it. He’s turned me on to new people, but I’ve loved watching the artists at LAND work and grow as artists. And Rebecca Hoffberger at AVAM. I’ve known her for many years, I actually went to India with her to go see Nek Chand’s gardens. She’s been always supportive and pushing me and being supportive, she is an amazing woman. I think Doug Robson too, who I recently met, is willing to take the star power of Smithsonian and all that, and push this art out and talk about it, and keep it going, while also honoring his mother who was the original inspiration and collector for him. I know he is always moving around looking for new people doing great things. And then Tom Di Maria at Creative Growth, he’s always been such a good friend over the years. That reminds me, early on, when I used to go to the studio to see Tom Di Maria, I would always pick the weirdest things. There’s this chair that Dan Miller did. He painted a chair that you could sit in and, I’m like, I want the chair and Tom was like what, why do you want the chair? Nobody has a chair! Everyone has paintings and whatever but ain’t nobody got a chair, and it’s beautiful!

Jennifer: Wow I’d love to see an image. I think we’ve covered all my questions, is there anything else you feel like you need to share?

Paul: Yes, I just – I really, really, really, really hope and pray and wish that people would not buy crappy art that is from Ikea and crappy posters. I know people are afraid that the art they buy may not appreciate, but don’t buy it as an investment, buy it because you love it. And, if you still are worried that the art you buy may not be worth anything later, I can GUARANTEE you that the crappy mass-produced poster art people buy is DEFINITELY not going to be worth ANYTHING, so take a chance. Even if it does not appreciate in value, if you love it and it makes you happy looking at it, you are still further ahead than having to find a dumpster for your crappy poster art! LOL

Jennifer: I feel the same!